Damon Motorcycles @ CES

"CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever" (carsoffortlangley) 01/06/2020 at 12:53 • Filed to: None

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Now, I don’t ride...but correct me if I’m wrong: People ride motorcycles to feel more connected to the road and a machine.

I feel like motorcycle riders don’t want the same nanny systems that the buyers of a Nissan Rogue do?

Peter Black and others, chime in!

Damon is a Vancouver based startup *vomit* trying to make Electric techy bikes. The trailer actually shows a lot of the roads from the last BC oppo drive.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

RPM esq. > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 13:02

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All I know is that if you’re like me and ride a motorcycle roughly once every five years, suddenly experiencing traction control on two wheels feels like black magic.

jimz > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 13:03

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ABS and TC are fine by me.  Nav is useful for long-ass rides. Maybe an integrated front camera (built in dash-cam.)  But I do my damnedest to pay attention to what’s going on around me, so the other stuff would be superfluous.

fintail > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 13:30

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I’ve had diehard “real men” purists tell me wanting a gear indicator means I should just stay in a car. Funny, nowadays most high spec bikes have the gear indicator I wished for ages ago.

The Tesla set getting on two wheels will keep first responders active, perhaps.

Jason Spears > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 13:36

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I don’t bike, but...

... motorcycling...

No.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 14:13

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People ride motorcycles to feel more connected to the road and a machine.

I think there’s more to it than that. A lot of it is the open, naked, vulnerable feeling . It’s not having a cage around you or feeling like you’re in a box. To me the “connected to the road and machine” part of the equation isn’t that different than a good sports car . I think it’s a bit more intimate on a bike but not too terribly different.

I feel like motorcycle riders don’t want the same nanny systems that the buyers of a Nissan Rogue do?

Yes and no. This is very similar to the “analog car” argument. I only ever rode “analog” bikes, my last bike was a 2007 CBR1000RR, and it didn’t have traction control or ABS or any of that stuff. And let me tell you, it was a handful . It was a machine that commanded respect. So yeah, having an “analog” bike sounds really good in theory, and it’s perfectly adequate on a cruiser or smaller, sporty bike. Beyond that, I think it’s kind of up to what the rider is looking for. If you want the challenge of wrangling a bucking bronco on top of a cruise missile, hop on and turn all the electronics off. If you’re serious about setting fast lap times, you’re not going to do it without the tech.

The other thing with electronics on bikes is they HAVE to be more delicate. No sudden power cuts, chopped throttles, automatic braking . Stuff like that will jar you out of the experience of thrashing a sports car. It could kill you on a bike. So I just don’t see where any of that stuff is going to be awful on a bike and “ruin the experience”. It’s going to keep your ass on a seat instead of on the pavement.

Electric techy bikes

So they are making 2 wheel Teslas for the Tech Bro crowd. I have a feeling that despite the electronic nannies, they ’ll keep the EMS in business for years to come.

MeatSaber > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 14:40

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A lot of modern bikes are so damn fast you need those systems to keep you in check. Kind of redundant when you think about it. Bikes got so wild that we had to invent systems to restrain them to a level that normal people can safely operate them . That said I prefer more modest machines myself that dont require  the safety net.

Future next gen S2000 owner > fintail 01/06/2020 at 15:17

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That’s dumb. Knowing what gear you are in is useful information. Hell it’s like a gas gauge. Yeah you can get by without it but damned if it isn’t useful.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 15:22

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I am your not so secret senna, I need your full name and email address for customs. Please email me at jbowland@yahoo.com.

Thanks. 

Future next gen S2000 owner > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 15:24

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Kinda-ish on the tech stuff. ABS and TC are relatively late additions to the motorcycle world. I’ve never ridden a bike with them. My bike is an 09 and has zero nannies. Modern 1000cc bikes almost need them to be rideable. Top spec motoGP bikes use them because 240hp and 400 lbs is...well....a handful. Just like a car though, good nannies can make you faster, and bad integration makes you want to just turn it all off. Most people never get anywhere near ABS stopping on a bike. Sportbikes will endo before ABS kicks in. Cruisers - I’m not sure they have big enough brakes. Could be I’m not just riding hard/fast enough.

There is an element of being one with the machine but I don’t think nannies alter that. It’s being exposed and knowing that if it goes wrong, it goes really wrong. I think most crashes won’t be fixed by a nanny either. That won’t help in a low side where the tire loses grip.

For me it is running 55* mph with absolutely zero body/bike visible in front of me. The wind buffeting my helmet. The lean of the bike at corner entry and the horizon going funny. High risk with greater reward. You have to earn your speed, much more so than in a car. That’s why I like it.

I think electric bikes might really need TC, ya know excessive wheelies and all that.

*May or may not be accurate.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 01/06/2020 at 15:32

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ok!

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 15:44

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Hope to have it in the mail tomorrow. 

slipperysallylikespenguins > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 16:07

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I don’t like the nannies at all in my car but am more open to them on a bike. The most advanced feature on any motorcycle I’ve ever owned is fuel injection, which is a must for me on a bike but not a car. I got to ride a 217hp Aprilia last spring and loved the electronics. It made such an absurdly powerful bike a joy to ride. Out of the 15 or so people in my group that were riding them, nobody adjusted the electronics past the halfway point where Aprilia set them.

I have no interest in electric motorcycles though.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 16:23

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If integrated we ll, meh, whatever. It’s still a bike. My issue is, and this comes from working on these types of systems all the time, they’re finicky as hell.

Picture this: hauling ass down a fun backroad, curve coming up, there’s a bunch of trees or a house on the outside of the curve, directly where the road would be if it kept going straight. Bike doesn’t know the road curves, it just sees the trees and house straight ahead. Meanwhile, you’ve scrubbed a bit of speed, but you’re still more than double the 35mph advisory speed for that curve. It’s fine, that’s easily within range of a decent rider on a good bike. You’ve started shifting your weight, when suddenly the bike freaks out thinking you’re going to hit the house and applies the brakes hard. Tires can only do so much, and braking will stand that bike right up. Unable to turn, you do end up hitting the house. All because the bike intervened.

Or you’re in the center lane of a three lane highway. Highway separates, center lane splits into two diverging paths. You signal to go right, but the bike sees someone in the next lane over and thinks you’re merging into them, so it intervenes and hits the brakes so you get turned into pink mist by the bro truck who was riding your ass with his 60 inch tires and 8 foot lift.

Extreme? Yeah. But the point is these sensors are extremely finicky and susceptible to misalignment, external frequencies, dirt, water, you name it.

How about this: your bike is parked on the street while you’re out with friends getting dinner. Karen, in her infinite wisdom and with her mastery of automotive control, has had a Cosmo with her dinner. It’s just one drink, Chad, you don’t know me! She’s parked her Prius right in front of your bike. Plenty of space between for any oppo, but Karen gets a text just as she starts backing up. She just nicks the front fairing of your bike. No scratches or dents or anything, didn’t knock it over. It’s fine, right? Well what actually happened is the fairing deflected to take the impact and in doing so the bracket that holds your radar sensor inside of the fairing cracked. It’s still in place, but every now and then when you hit a bump after this fateful night, you get erroneous warnings from this sensor thinking you’re about to die and the world is going to end. But you’re not aware of this yet. So the next day you’re out for a ride, going through a nice curve at a good pace, when you hit a bump and the bike screams a warning beep at you. The beep takes your attention off of the road ahead, you go a little wide and catch some damp leaves with your front tire as you try to correct. But damp leaves are like banana peels in Mario kart and do you fly off the road and over the edge of the Earth never to be seen again! Because the Earth is flat in this scenario. Because why not.

Hyperbolic? Sarcastic? Maybe a little.... But at this point I wouldn’t buy a bike with any nannies beyond what’s currently available. ABS/TC/riding modes at this point are very well integrated and reliable and they don’t tend to act up in unpredictable ways. Other driving aids? Hard pass.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/06/2020 at 16:42

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I totally see the above scenarios happening.

We had the windshield replaced on the CX-3 with a Mazda made replacement. The sensor cluster behind though was never quite the same since they are calibrated to be SO exact.

Our lane departure, brake assist, auto highbeams was so finicky after that

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > MeatSaber 01/06/2020 at 16:49

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Bikes are becoming too expensive, and almost ridiculously powerful.

My current favorite is Ducati Diavel 1260 S. Absolutely my kind of bike... and it does have riding modes, and cornering ABS, and the works...

But I don’t really need Ducati’s fastest 0-60 bike in history. (sport-bikes are faster overall, but Diavel’s gearing and torque curve are way lower on the tach, and it pretty much launches itself into orbit from a standstill and from low speeds.

I really wish they offered a Diavel 950 S, similar to the down-sized Multistrada. with the standard ergos, single-sided arm, the big intakes, and cool style that Diavel has, that Monster doesn’t.

225 rear tire rather than 245, and 500lbs, rather than 550... just a tad lighter, more nimble, and a bit less overkill.

But maybe overkill is the Diavel’s appeal.

Monster used to be the only one... but between Diavel’s style, and Streetfighter variants that have sport bike performance... and Scrambler being affordable and air-cooled, I am not sure what Monster really has in it’s corner anymore.

Maybe it is my age, but the ergos of sportbikes like this Damon bike, Ducati’s superbike and supersport lines... and YamaHondaKawaZuki sport bikes... Just don’t appeal to me, when bikes like Monster, Thruxton, Speed Triple, and Diavel are better to ride, and still faster than any road, and almost any rider’s skill.

I guess I don’t really dream of driving a new Porsche 935 or GT2RS on the road, either... and would be just great with a used 981, 996, or 997... and dream about a 4-liter motorsport-grade GT4 or Spyder. Overkill is not just a cool ‘80s song.

nermal > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 18:29

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I think that complimentary electronics are great - Things like ABS, Launch Control, Wheelie Control, Traction Control, Quickshifters, Auto-Blippers, Riding Modes, etc. 

On the flip side, I am strongly opposed to anything that interferes with the operation of the motorcycle without rider input. By this I mean the motorcycle a pplying braking / throttle / steering inputs on its own .

DipodomysDeserti > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 23:52

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I feel disconnected on bikes without carbs. This would probably feel like wearing a sock as condom for me.

slipperysallylikespenguins > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/07/2020 at 01:43

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This is what I’ve been telling people for years about the advanced systems in cars. What are the enemies of electronics? Dust, moisture, heat, and vibration . What are cars and motorcycles always exposed to? Dust, moisture, heat, and vibration.

It is already super easy to total a bike with a low speed drop. Having all those sensors makes it a guarantee.